Women in Law Profile:
Madeleine May CBE

Madeleine May CBE was Executive Director of the International Bar Association (IBA), a worldwide association of lawyers, from 1979 to 1994, and Director of the London Court of International Arbitration (LCIA) from 1995 to 2002. She is the International Consultant for Martindale Hubbell and has carried out numerous other consultancies for the international legal profession since leaving the IBA. Here she is interviewed by Women in Law director Ruth Eldon.

Ruth Eldon: Madeleine, it seems highly appropriate that our first Women in Law Profile should be of a women who has spent the last 30 years working on behalf of the legal profession. You have witnessed tremendous changes, both in the profession generally, and in the role of women in the profession.
I have read that when you trained to be a solicitor in the late 1960s, you were the only female in your class of 200. Can you tell us how it felt and how you were treated by your professors, and also your fellow students?

Madeleine May: I attended Law School in the late 1950s and 1960, both times being the only woman in my class. I was treated as a curiosity both by lecturers and students. I got far more than my fair share of questions and the students either mainly ignored me or tried to ask me out. In the final exam classes I was determined to show the men by coming top of my class. I failed – I was third.

RE: Did this affect your decision not to practise law? In fact, you have had the top jobs at both the IBA and the LCIA – so no regrets?

MM: No, I did five years Articles in a small provincial practice – conveyancing and probate mainly – and I have to confess I did not find it very stimulating. It was my father’s practice and when he died three years into my Articles I was ‘sold’ as part of the firm and then largely ignored. As I had then passed my intermediate exam – I don’t think that exists now – and accounts exam (a major challenge for me as I can’t add – the only balance sheet I ever got to balance was in the exam) I decided to stick it out and qualify, then do something that was not working in a solicitor’s office.

When I qualified I went to the Law Society’s job registry to see what jobs there were. The then Secretary-General, Sir Thomas Lund, was showing someone round and asked me what I was doing. I worked as his assistant and in the Law Society generally for around five years, also editing the International Bar Association (IBA) Newsletter as Sir Thomas was at that time the IBA Treasurer. I went with him to a few IBA meetings and continued doing IBA work – very part time – after I stopped working to have my first baby. Sir Thomas became Executive-Director of the IBA and I took over from him. Before I left the IBA I had been offered the LCIA job by some IBA/LCIA members – so I have never had a real job interview in my life.

RE: Today, over half the students who are studying law in the UK are women. Why do you think so many women are attracted to the law?

MM: I think there are many more women now in every type of job. I suppose the law is regarded as glamourous and well paid and offers a variety of jobs – you certainly don’t have to just work in a solicitor’s office.

RE: In spite of this, the problem of the ‘glass ceiling’ still exists. What can women do to improve their situation and do you think governments should intervene in this process through affirmative action initiatives?

MM: Yes, the ‘glass ceiling’ does still exist but it is slowly cracking. I believe it will continue to crack and at a quicker rate but it is going to take time. Tremendous progress has been made by women in the law but you can’t change the way women are regarded by men overnight. They have to prove themselves and it will take time before men (both bosses and clients) realise they are every bit as clever and can work as hard as men. We still have to overcome the having babies prejudice.

RE: The IBA has a membership of approx 14,000 lawyers, of which 2,600 are women. Why do you think this is, and why did you decide to start a Women’s Group in the IBA?

MM: The IBA used to be a perk for senior partners. This is changing but while most of the bosses are still men and those bosses decide who goes to IBA conferences and whose subs are paid, women are bound to be in the minority. Equality will only come when there are an equal number of female bosses.

I was – and still am – opposed to a formal women’s group or section in the IBA. I feel women are every bit as good and hardworking as men and therefore can hold their own in mixed groups. All I did was help them network and give them moral support by having a reception for women at the annual IBA conference – the first reception was held in 1991 – and then a more formal lunch with a speaker.

RE: Do you think there are separate roles for male and female practitioners, and how far do you think that female lawyers are perceived as closer to their clients? Is there a particularly female role in the law?

MM: No. Women have proved themselves to be just as tough negotiators as men both in commerce and litigation. Perhaps women with family problems regard women lawyers as being more sympathetic – I don’t really know. Women who only want to work part-time after having children are suited to support roles – librarian, IT, research and so on.

RE: Do you think it is easier today than when you first started to balance life and work issues?

MM: Difficult. Working women are far more readily accepted today and there are nurseries to leave babies and some schools take them from the age of three all day, from 8.00 am to 6.00pm. Also there are groups for children after school with a collection service. None of these existed 40 years ago but I had the benefit of being a curiosity. I was always the only mother who worked and therefore the only one seeking help with after-school or holiday care. The downside was that when I had days off I had to return all this help and always had masses of children to play.

RE: There are many countries in the world which do not yet recognise that women’s needs and aspirations have changed – elsewhere in this newsletter we read about the women lawyers in Afghanistan; what do you think women in the west have learned in the last 30 years that they can pass on to those who are only now finding their voice and their vocation?

MM: I believe we can only help by example, ie that influential men in countries like Afghanistan and Iran can see that women have top jobs in the west and do them every bit as well as men. Of course, many men in Islamic countries think this is wrong. The pressure for change has to come from within from their own women. Women’s groups such as yours can help by trying to get their publications into the hands of women worldwide, thus showing them what women can do if allowed. This builds the pressure for change.

I don’t know what women in the west can do to help beyond helping them know what we are doing and encouraging them to network and support each other.

RE: In 1996 you took over the running of the London Court of International Arbitration. How does the world of dispute resolution compare with the world of legal practice from a woman’s point of view? Do women still have a hard time convincing clients to appoint them as arbitrators? Are they viewed as a ‘soft touch’?

MM: The world of international commercial arbitration is around two decades behind the legal world generally as far as women are concerned. When I went to my first LCIA conference in 1995 it was like being at an IBA Conference in the 1970s. The average age was around 60 and there was only one woman delegate. Things have improved – I formed a LCIA Young Arbitrators Group which has a newsletter and separate meetings. Around one-third of the members are female and probably 10 per cent of attendees at conferences are now female. However, it is very hard for a female to get a top appointment. Appointments are largely made by men – whether a co-arbitrator, lawyer or client – and, although they pay lip service to encouraging women, they are reluctant to do so when large sums of money are involved. There are only a handful of women arbitrators who have made it.

The position is better in domestic arbitrations where much smaller sums are usually involved but still far more appointments are given to men.

RE: Why do you think that women lawyers conferences and publications are so strongly supported by women lawyers when their ambition surely is to find equality in what is still in many ways, a man’s world?

MM: I suppose because they need the reassurance and support that fellow women lawyers provide and they welcome the opportunity to share experiences and discover that they are not alone in meeting the ‘glass celling’.

RE: And finally, what advice would you give to women entering the profession now?

MM: Don't try and hide your femininity. Dress smartly, quite
conservatively, and don't try and behave like a man such as swearing,
dirty jokes, hard drinking. Show you are willing to put work before
social life and even family when necessary. Don't gossip (man's
stereotype of a woman is frivolous talk and too much of it). Sadly, it is
still necessary to prove you are as good as a man - so never forget
that.

RE: Madeleine, thank you.